The ‘Post-Bad Boy’, the Shifting Goals of Females, and Incels Left Behind As Usual

When the question comes up of whether good genes guarantees an abundant sex life but not marriage vs. resources guaranteeing marriage but not an abundant sex life, I would say that it’s more of a trend than an absolute rule. You also have to look at the age of the woman.

There is no arguing that young women are definitely not looking for resources when they are 18…  Ha! Boy that’s an understatement, isn’t it? When they’re 18, there is only one resource important enough to even mention, and that would be a car. Aside from that, you might get the cheerleaders one-upping each other over who has the jock/hunk boyfriend from the richest family, and for the rest of girl-kind at that age, it’s all about gina tingles.

After that, as they progress into their mid and late 20s, they start to become more marriage and resource-minded, but don’t forget that the future is built on the past. Let’s have a moment of honesty with ourselves as incels, okay? Yes, women don’t seem to mind swaggering assholes — especially really hot women — but realistically, most guys who get women are not necessarily bad boys, in the most obvious sense. We tend to notice them more because those outlandish examples of obvious dickheads with women stick out like a sore thumb, but the majority of noncel men are pretty regular guys — guys who are more “edgy” than we are of course, and always have been. In fact, many or most regular guys of the mid-to-late 20s range may have been bad boys when they were 18, but you have to remember that they “mature” as well. So from mid-teens to early-20s, they were giving girls gina tingles, but as they grew older, they too were maturing and starting to build prosperity (having one or a string of cheerleaders by their sides helps with this). They were going to college, building careers, and so on. By the time the women are ready for marriage, the same bad boys whom they worshiped when they were younger gradually evolved into the respectable provider and husband they wanted, but still a hunk of course with enough edge to make him palatable, and still wearing a hat on backwards with wrap-around sun glasses…oh, and by now, his muscles are huge, resulting from having way more testosterone than you were ever going to have. Yes, now you have the mature, post-bad boy, who is somehow a pillar of the community now, is raising kids, drives a pick-up that stands 12′ off the ground, makes good money, gets a little wild on the weekends, lights up a room and makes the elders proud, has huge muscles…oh, and he’s your boss.

What about the bottom 5%? Don’t they develop into anything worthwhile too? Not if they never get pussy. Sure, they might end up making decent money eventually — most don’t but some do — but even that can’t help you once you reach a certain level of incel. See there is an age — long before 30 — after which there will be no “beginning” of a normal DSR life. You have been pre-deselected for so damn long that you have had nothing to build on, in terms of anything valuable to women. You weren’t what they wanted when you were young, and you’re not what they want when they are older…and yes, you are in the bottom 5% or lower. Congratulations.

As you look toward the less-successful end of the woman spectrum — the ones who don’t have degrees and good jobs, but do have one or two kids and a tramp stamp — you’re looking at the women who love the bad boys the most, which explains why they are not all that well off, actually. Any chance with one of them? No, because you’re pretty much the opposite of the kind of guy who turns them on, and as you can see, being turned on is #1 for these women, even as they get older. Why are they going to mess with you, a guy who has no edge at all, not even a bit of swagger left (none to start with), when they can find a guy who is not exactly a gang banger but has a few relationships under his belt, makes at least as much money as you do, has a hankering for some pussy, and has at least some pre-selection value and a little bit of edge left? She can find guys like that everywhere she looks; you are more of the rarity that she’s glad not to run into very often. In other words, even trashy broads don’t want an incel, because gina tingle being more important than gold digging is why they are dirt poor in the first place.

As you look toward the more-successful end of the woman spectrum — the ones who are pretty well-off anyway, have loads of “class” or whatever, wear office attire and don’t need a man for survival anyway — you’re looking at women who are going to get with the high-paid hunks who are your boss, sometimes as a 2nd or 3rd wife, sometimes as the belated “match made in Heaven” or whatever…but rest assured, they are only going to be with total alphas. Some of them end up prolonged single though, and some of them act as representatives for the rest and whine to these women’s magazine columns: Where did all the good men go? I’m so successful, by why can’t I find a man? Well, these women are not available to the incel, rest assured. They want the top tier of men, and if it’s a choice between a pre-deselected 40 year old virgin kind of guy with no experience, and staying alone, they’ll stay alone. For one thing, she makes a lot more than you do, and there is no way she can stomach the idea of getting with a guy who makes less, even the many, many guys who do have a little bit of swagger and experience. What would she want with you? Not only do you not have the money and career success that she does, but you don’t even have the one thing missing in her life that she needs from a man — any edge, swag or signs of adequate testosterone. She can’t picture a loser like you raising her kids.

What about the women who are in-between? They are for the droves of in-between men: some pre-selection, decent career and money, etc. Oh, and don’t get any ideas about the women who have little experience themselves, and have little money…they want men who have what they don’t. Not only are they rare, but they want a guy who can fill in what they are missing, not a male carbon-copy of themselves.

See even in the age of feminism (which is not what feminists think or say it is) men are a commodity or nothing at all. Whether women want money or have money, women want a man. None of them have any use for a man without masculinity, something that begets and is begotten by pre-selection and pussy experience. A man without those things isn’t really a man at all, to them. True gold-diggers only go for truly rich guys, so forget that one too.

And remember, you’re in the bottom 5%.
No, more like the bottom 1%.
The few men who are nothing to women.



  1. It sounds like you think incels almost necessarily have less testosterone than noncels. Is this based on personal observation (all the incels you know have less overtly masculine features), or have there actually been studies done on how the lack of normal T levels affects mate selection (scientists have compared the T of many men and also asked about their N)?

    1. I have a deep voice, in the bass range if I could sing, which signals high testosterone. Women still want nothing to do with me.

  2. Sorry for the triple comment, but I just reread this post and am confused about what you mean by preselection. If you’ve the time, can you expand on it more?

  3. I can totally relate to the gina tingles. Girls at my school only went for the crème de la crop. The most popular guys got their first girlfriends in order by who was cooler than who. Then on to me, a socially-awkward, scrawny, not good looking boy with both MD and a learning disability, and a dull personality. Girls were horrified at the idea of dating me. And guys would use that to their advantage, announcing to some random girl that I liked them, even if I didn’t. The looks of horror running across the girls face would always get a big laugh. Occasionally, a girl would step in and tell the guy not to pick on me. Any joy from this would be short-lived as class would end and the guy and girl would enjoy a make-out session in the hallway afterwards. I was totally forgotten about. I graduated as the only guy in my class to have never kissed a girl. And everyone knew it. Those were the easy years.
    To be 18 having never kissed a girl is embarrassing. To be 31 and have never, and to know you never will, is psychological martyrdom. You have to live in your own fantasy world to deal with it all. To go through life like a stray dog no one wants is extremely difficult. As members of the bottom 5% (and I don’t’ think our rating is even that good), what options have we?
    The pretty girls are unattracted to us, we are a joke to them
    The unattractive ones know even they can do better. They don’t even bother to humor us.
    The athletic ones need other athletic ones to share hobbies with
    The unathletic ones have other hobbies and qualities that we don’t have because all we can think about is sex.
    The smart ones think we are too dumb
    The dumb ones mistake our dull and serious personality for intelligence and think we are nerdy.
    The logical girl doesn’t see us as her fit
    The emo girls think we are robots
    The healthy ones don’t admire our skrawniness
    The fat ones admire it even less because they need someone bigger
    The fun ones think we are too dull
    The boring ones flock to the fun guys. The guys will enjoy a girl on the side, which the girl doesn’t mind.
    The nerdy ones seem to be a possibility. Until you see them on their turf and their wild side comes out.
    The older women looking to fulfill a fantasy with a younger guy will not take us seriously.
    The younger girls view us as desperate and creepy.
    The girls our age know our life experiences don’t match theirs.
    The funny girls think our jokes are stupid
    The girls with no sense of humor think we are childlike and dumb.
    The single moms don’t consider us as being capable fathers
    The religious girls consider us too sinful (because of the sinful ways we are forced to use for our needs)
    The non-religious don’t care for any of the small remaining good traits we still have.
    The white girls don’t view us as partners.
    The black girls don’t think we can handle them
    The Asian girls don’t think we are cool enough
    The middle eastern girls don’t think we are wealthy enough
    The Latina girls think we are too cold
    Believe me, I have tried every one of these kinds of girls and failed. More than once. In my entire life, I have met only one girl who is exactly my type. Not attractive, boring, no hobbies, cynical and unhappy, not intelligent (but hardworking). But most importantly, no one was after her. I spent years chasing other girls, believing that after all my sufferings, why couldn’t I get a girl l really liked. Believing having someone I really liked would eventually come around. But it never happened. So finally I gave in. I made peace with never having a pretty girl, and taking comfort in the fact at least I had a match. I made preparations to finally have a partner and reached out to her, and was told…
    No! She didn’t like me either! What I have since realized is the .001% of girls in our league will say no because we are just confirmation to them of what they are afraid of being. Now I just watch knowing she would choose to be alone rather than be with me. Hell, now she even looks prettier than ever before. I panicked with the realization that there are 4 billion women on the planet, and I mean diddly squat to every last one of them. Completely alone in a world with 4 billion women.
    I know I have already gone on too long. But let me finish by giving a review of how today went. I was ignored by every girl at work. The only two who even bother to acknowledge my presence continued to keep me in the friend zone. If I took one step forward, they take one step back. I stopped at a restaurant where a girl was sitting by herself eating lunch. I just sat a table down trying to consider how to talk to her and the harder I thought, the more blank my mind became. You see, women have become an entirely different species I can’t relate to with a force field in front of them. In other words, I didn’t even stand a chance. I stop at a gas station and try to give my number to a girl who shoos me away. Finally, I end up at a Geekfest. A girl walks around booth to booth, engaging in conversations with everyone. I spend considerable time trying to end up at the same booth without looking too obvious. Finally we are at the same booth alone together. I nervously wait for her to talk but the words never come. I muster up the courage to say a few words to her and she gives me a blank stare before walking away leaving me alone.
    This is the life of an incel. Sex seems unimaginable, when we can’t ever enjoy a brief conversation with a girl. Even if we could, how does it go from that to getting the girl in to bed with us? The mind spins at the thought of that. Yet, for the average guy, sex is as easy as breathing. Some guys even have sex with multiple girls at the same time. Meanwhile, the incel has sex with himself. And don’t even bother to get excited about the “friend zone”. What I have discovered is the friend zone is just a way to keep you at arm’s length. I experience the “friend zone” with a co-worker every day, who smiles at me and says hello, and will allow me to endulge in a 30 second conversation with her. But after months, I know nothing about her. And because I know nothing, I don’t know what step to take next. This is the “friend zone”, the girl using subtle tactics to reject the guy without appearing to be a bitch.
    And this is the life the incel endures all day every day. Every day is just a re-living of the day before. While guys 10 years younger than us are getting ready to start families. We, like rats trying to finish a maze, and longing for our first conversation with a girl.
    There is a reason why a 31 year old man stands on the same line as a 11 year old. Because to the girl he is an 11 year old. This is how the girl sees it. Every girl, every type, every age, every race, every where, every day. And I think I am just starting to realize that the someday I’ve always longed for will never come. Even as I type this, some alpha is enjoying his girl…and mine…and yours…altogether.

    1. And don’t even bother to get excited about the “friend zone”. What I have discovered is the friend zone is just a way to keep you at arm’s length. I experience the “friend zone” with a co-worker every day, who smiles at me and says hello, and will allow me to endulge in a 30 second conversation with her. But after months, I know nothing about her. And because I know nothing, I don’t know what step to take next. This is the “friend zone”, the girl using subtle tactics to reject the guy without appearing to be a bitch.

      What’s worse is that this isn’t even a friend zone you’re in. It’s more of a acquaintance zone, because at least in a friend zone you’re actually doing activities together and spending time with each other outside of work *as* friends.

      I spend considerable time trying to end up at the same booth without looking too obvious. Finally we are at the same booth alone together. I nervously wait for her to talk but the words never come. I muster up the courage to say a few words to her and she gives me a blank stare before walking away leaving me alone.

      Wow. That’s truly bitchy behavior on her part. Can’t say I haven’t seen it happen at Gencon or ComicCon though. You’d think that being booth babes, who are only paid to look good and act nice to get customers to buy stuff, would actually be able to do both aspects of their job. Apparently not.

      Defeated, have you ever considered joining a toastmaster club or taking a public speaking course at a local college? I’m not saying it will cure your inceldom, but it might give you a confidence boost in talking to women, and will definitely force you into the element of doing so since there will be female classmates.

      1. Wow. You’re right. She does have me in the acquaintance zone. She always gives very vague answers, never gets into specifics. Most often, she doesn’t ask me any questions about myself. Once the conversation goes on ‘too long’ she finds an excuse to leave. Truth is, I’ve never had a female friend. I never even realized that either. To get a girl to agree to spend time with me outside of work doesn’t even seem plausible.

        Regarding, a public speaking class, not really. But would it be much different than work? Because regarding business matters, I engage in conversations with them. It’s just when the business side of it is taken care of, the girls find an excuse to leave.

        Regarding the Geekfest girl, she was not someone working there. She was an attendee like me. It was one of those moments you think is straight from heaven. Really cute, friendly (maybe too much) girl who walks around showing interest in everything, not hanging out with anyone. She talks to everyone (worker and attendee). You’ll definitely be able to strike up a conversation with her. You end up at the same booth (Ghostbusters) as her thinking she’ll engage in a conversation with you, and you wait and wait pretending to be interested in it. But the words just never come. You make a remark about a particular item and she just shrugs her shoulders. You mention something about the new movie coming out and its like a forced smile and continues on to the next booth. And sure enough, 30 seconds later she’s laughing away with the guy at that booth.

        1. Yeah, that’s just the “let’s be polite” acquaintance zone. It’s fairly standard for women to use with men (or honestly, other women) that they have no interest in getting to know better. I’m sorry, man.

          If I may, does having a female friend seem implausible because of your difficulties in talking to them, or because you have more traditionally masculine hobbies?

          I can’t say for certain that a Toastmaster course would be significantly different than being at work…After all, I don’t really know what you do. My recommendation was based more on your comment about how you tend to freeze up when trying to find words to say to new women, and how they’re almost a separate species to you. A speaking class usually has you talking or practicing with both men and women, and with a varied range of topics, including ones about you and your hobbies. It’ll also teach you how to project an air of confidence as well as different forms of body language that may help people open up to you. I took 2 classes in college since I’m not great at reading the subtleties of body language or reading between the lines of what people say. (INTJs like me tend to not gloss over what needs to be said, so it can be confusing when others do.) Figured it might help, but you know yourself better, obviously.

          Okay, I mistook what you were saying about the woman at Geekfest. My apologies. The only thing I can say, without actually seeing the situation firsthand, is that maybe she was really only interested in speaking to the vendors/volunteers of said booths? And just wanted to keep moving on to take it all in, rather than talking to a fellow attendee? Or maybe she was just an attention whore, and only wanted to initiate conversations, not be invited into them (as when you begin the convo instead of her). Can’t say for sure, but those are some possibilities.

          1. I think my inability to get a female friend is more to do with not being able to talk to them. Later down in this blog, there is a post about the life of a loser (the very first one). Last night I commented that it was like reading my biography. Things just get worse every year. It’s possible that I go into a conversation thinking its doomed for failure. But most girls seem like they aren’t interested in a conversation anyway. It’s not difference in hobbies. It’s like, you get the impression everything you say is dull/boring/stupid/pointless. When I watch girls talk to 10 year olds, its the same vibe I get out of them. Like, they are just humoring you but eventually they need to have an adult conversation. That’s partly why I mention my learning disability. I never been able to dive deep in a conversation. And I can’t remember anything either. I went to an observatory last week and a co-worker (male of course) asked how it was. I paid attention, really enjoyed it, but couldn’t remember a thing from the lecture. Maybe that has something to do with it. Then you throw in the fact I’m not good looking and socially awkward, and it’s tough to recover.

            They say women can sense desperation in a guy, and steer clear of it. Well I can pretend to me more confident, but its just pretend. I don’t understand how someone with my losing streak is supposed to have confidence. Most guys just go out and get a girlfriend. It blows my mind I went straight down the list (pretty, overweight, athletic, emo, Asian, indian, on and on) and there’s no options. Then the girl exactly like me said she doesn’t like me either.

            Maybe desperation is what the girl from Geekfest saw? But she was definitely talking to everyone. But when I ran into her, I stood there for at least 5 minutes waiting for her to talk. She definitely wanted to take everything in, which is why I had those couple minutes, but you can tell the more interested she was, the more likely she was to start talking about it.

            1. I’ll have to go read that post and your comment when I’ve got the time. For what it’s worth, I very much doubt you are a loser. “Losing” at women isn’t the same as losing at life…you have what sounds like a decent career, you understand your flaws plus how they affect your life, you have hobbies and interests outside of work. You’re not a loser, Defeated.

              1. Thanks. I appreciate that, and I’ll take it to heart. But its worth mentioning that I have a decent career in large part to the fact that I work my butt of to maintain it. Every day I go in and as hard as I work, I make mistakes and spend additional time fixing them. I wok close to a 60 hour work week for a 40 hour job. And part of the reason I can’t ignored by girls at work is that I am making mistakes. A guy who can’t do his job right the first time around is less worthy in the eyes of his female co-worker. Some of them have even said I was a moron.

                Honestly though, losing at women feels a lot like losing at life. When your 31 and never been kissed, women occupy your mind 24/7. And the simple fact is I can’t get close to ANY of them. I don’t really agree with prostitution. But one time I broke down and stopped at an Asian Massage Parlor. They were open, but the ladies there were frank and told me they were closed and I had to leave. They kept insisting they were not open. So I left, and three minutes later animously called and were told they were open. I am convinced they saw my limp and thought I was some kind of freak. Even with money, I can’t get close to girls. One time when I was still in highschool and working at McDonalds, some co-workers were talking about sex. One of the girls made a remark she couldn’t even talk about it with me in the room. This is why I say I feel like they are a different species I can’t relate to.

                1. Defeated,

                  Ha! You and I are similar in that regard. My regular work week is 50 hours regularly as it is, being a sales rep/warehouse job. We have to be open the same hours as all UPS locations just to get everything out to the companies we deal with. I get the majority of weekends off though, plus commission and 100% health coverage so don’t think I’m complaining.

                  The women who call you a moron are stupid themselves. The right and honorable thing to do when one makes a mistake is to fix it. That they do not comprehend this speaks more about them than you.

                  I empathize with what you’re going through, and hope it didn’t come off as me making light of your situation with women. I apologize if it did.

                  I have never used the services of a sex worker, but have nothing against them. I actually believe prostitution should be made legal in states other than Nevada, and be regulated like any other job. It would help cut down on the spread of STDs, make it a legitimate career, give both the workers and “johns” protections, and help to eliminate (or at the very least decrease) human trafficking.

                  Damn. I honestly don’t know what to say about the experience you had at the parlor. I’m sorry. And the coworker who said she couldn’t talk about sex with you nearby was a bitch. No two ways about it.

                  I know this isn’t the same as sex, but do you have a professional cuddle service in your area? We have a very well known one in NY. They meet with clients ahead of time, so you wouldn’t be pushed out the door like you were with the parlor women…

                  1. I’m not sure about the cuddling service, I might have to look into that. I actually left another comment in one of this guy’s later posts about my feelings of visiting a prostitute. Can’t say I’m a huge fan. But I feel I need to have some type of contact with the opposite sex. I think that one night I just broke down. The lack of sex wasn’t even the real issue, it was the first time I began to freak about the future. No matter what I do and no matter what I try, I might never experience intamacy. No ands, ifs, or buts about it. I was raised to be a competitive person. But when my disease manifested, I lost more and more of my competiveness (not that I was ever a jerk about it). I wouldn’t say I was ever a star at anything, but I don’t like to lose that’s for sure. In the fight against female rejection, it could not have been a more absolute win for rejection. Rejection dominated every round, every match, every quarter. I don’t hate women. It’s just a world full of ‘bitches’. I literally just got back from the grocery store where a female my age was cashiering. I picked her line as she didn’t seem like someone a lot of guys would have been after. But when she started checking out the guy in front of me, she was giggling and blushing over him. And he wasn’t even very good looking either. Like I said, girls can always do better. Even though the guy didn’t return her guesters I decided not to make a move because she was already hostile towards me for following up after him. Anyway, enough griping.

                    I appreciate all the kind words. And exhausting as your job sounds, it sounds like a good one. Sales can be pretty rewarding if you are good at it. And the full healthcare sounds awesome. Really good deal as health care cost keep going up and up.

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