You Have Two Choices

Once a man reaches a certain age — that age being the subject of debate, but usually considered around 30 — without ever having had sexual relations and/or a romantic relationship with a woman, he has two options: he can either resign himself to, or embrace (depending on his philosphy) the idea that life-long virginity is inevitable, or he can resign himself to losing his virginity to a prostitute.

Some will argue against this, usually because it’s an offense to their own hopeless romantic bias, but what do they have to offer as a third possibility? The only other possibility is to eventually end up with “someone” and get sex in the traditional, unpaid manner. Just one problem: he can’t decide for that to happen on his own. Sex is given, not procured. The only men who get to have sex for free are the ones who had that gift bestowed upon them by women, not the ones who “worked hard for it”. In fact, men who genuinely work hard to get women are the ones who don’t get women — they went to the trouble because they didn’t know what they were doing.

It seems completely unreasonable to expect a hardcore incel, who has reached age 30 or beyond without ever having had a woman acknowledge his masculinity, to entertain the idea of getting sex any other way than by paying for it. Most people with normal sex lives would feel completely insulted if someone suggested that they should hold out hope for something so hopeless. What sense would it make for someone to make a debut into a life of romance at that age anyway?

Resorting to prostitution is not for everyone. Many people have religious or moral objections to it, some have the same kind of hopeless romantic bias as their sexually active counterparts, and many more simply don’t have the nerve or the money to go through with it. All of these are valid reasons — even the hopeless romantic incel is entitled to his convictions, as long as he’s willing to accept the likelihood of dying a virgin. Lacking the guts to go though with it is one that the least amount of people would understand of forgive, but that’s probably because they’ve never walked a mile in those shoes. Engaging in prostitution, even legal and regulated, is not for the faint at heart. It’s a sleazy affair, something that even the most sexually experienced “normals” would have a hard time bringing themselves to going through with. The unfortunate part about that is that incels can be some of the most faint-at-heart people around, yet they are the ones who are going to have to bring themselves to ring that buzzer and walk through that door. There is never going to be a magic moment of confidence, or a groove to get into that is going to make going through with it easy. There are going to be moments of awkwardness and vascillation waiting for him — he won’t just wake up one day and make it happen when those moments are on their day off or something. They only way to make it happen is to realize that he’s going to have to make himself go through with it, step by step, regardless of his inhibitions.

It comes down to this: is it going to be easier than being a virgin when you turn whatever age you’ve dreaded that happening at? 30 is a dreaded age for most, but 40 is the most talked about number when it comes to late life virginity — obviously the movie about it is a major reason, but even intuitively, it’s the final branding iron of stigma. For some, crossing their most dreaded age of virginity may be the point after which it becomes easier to live with, kind of like a point of resignation and no return. For others, it may be the beginning of problems never imagined.

Everyone’s situation is different, and there are as many different perspectives and attitues on the subject as Carter has pills. The only things shared by all late-life virgins is the fact that eventually, each one of them will reach “that” age, whatever it may be — if death doesn’t come first — followed by certain death. They better be willing to accept having to take their v-cards to their graves if they aren’t willing to bite the bullet and pay to lose it. Most people can count on sex happening without having to resort to prostitution when they are younger, like in their teens or 20s; but the late-life virgin over 30 simply cannot have that expecation any more.

No, it’s not fair, and it may not make any sense, but it has happened nonetheless — you have become a late life virgin, and the clock is ticking. Sex with a prostitute might be in your future, or it might not be, but what most certainly will be in your future are hard choices. They simply are not going to go away.



  1. Men who refer incels to prostitutes tend to overestimate prostitutes’ abilities. They can’t work magic, and they grow up in the same culture as regular women, so an incel could have bad experiences with prostitutes just like he does with women he tries to date.

    I’ve also wondered lately how often incels experience rejection from prostitutes. Reportedly the Korean incel who shot up that university in Virginia a few years back hired an escort a few days before, but something about him creeped her out, and she refused to have sex with him.

    The availability of prostitutes also obscure the full extent of the incel phenomenon in the U.S. If you have two 30 year old guys, but one has had sexual relationships with women because he has attracted at least one of them, while the other has had to turn to escorts for sexual experience out of desperation because he’s sexually invisible to women otherwise, they would both report themselves as sexually experienced in surveys of sexual behavior. But other than that, their experiences with women aren’t similar at all.

    1. By the time an incel reaches the point of considering a prostitute just for the sake of avoiding (another) milestone of stigma, things like quality of the experience or true credibility of saying he has experience are actually pretty irrelevant. At that point, he’s on a mission to lose his virginity, whatever it takes, and everythinig else is what it is.

      I’ll ask the question again: what other options does he have at this point? Maybe he’ll have a terrible experience with the prostitute…but is that a reason that he should remain a virgin? Obviously, if his only experience in the world of the opposite sex is a cameo with a prostitute, then of course he isn’t going to have seen and done it all, the way the next guy has…so is that a reason to stay with zero experience at all? Maybe the truly experienced guy would feel better about survey results that way, but should the incel give a shit about that, at his own expense?

      Basically, he’s got bad options and worse options. I mean one can sit and talk all day long about all of the ways that the prostitute route falls short of what we could call a “normal experience” of losing virginity, or he can come to grips with the fact that any normal or respectable way of getting it done is no longer an option, and make a decisions between the two options he does have.

      As for being rejected by prostitutes, I used to have a blog post on here that was a reprint of a post from someone else, telling the story of being denied intercourse from an escort he had just hired. Why? Because he made the mistake of admitting to her that it was his first time. Well, turns out that wasn’t his first time either, because he failed to keep his mouth shut. So I’m sure it happens here and there, and it’s probably good for a virgin to realize that so he’ll be on his toes and hopefully not blow it by acting like the creepy loser that got him to midlife as a virgin in the first place.

  2. You also have to allow for the possibility that your boy parts won’t cooperate at your first opportunity for sex if it happens past the usual age for the sexual debut. That happened to me when I was 34, with a not very attractive woman also in her early 30’s. I don’t suffer from organic erectile dysfunction; I just couldn’t get an erection in that situation to save my life. If the woman were about a decade younger, that might have made a difference.

    A few years later I went to see a sex therapist I know through the cryonics community – you can meet some unusual people in cryonics. He practices in Orange County, California, and he works with sex surrogates. I explained my situation to him, and he tried to sell me on a course of “treatment” with a surrogate. I couldn’t afford it at the time, and it wasn’t practical for other reasons. But I could also see that it was kind of a scam. Supposing I could have learned to function sexually in an artificial situation with a surrogate, then what? What’s the follow up to that? I was already in my late 30’s then, and if I couldn’t attract women up to that point, the surrogate “treatment” wouldn’t change that about me, so the surrogate experience was a dead end.

    1. Then what? Life goes on — as a non-virgin. You aren’t the only one to have some type of sexual dysfunction your first time, due to it being late in life. Some find that the experience is so awkward that they just can’t make it happen, some suffer from medication-induced circumstances, and some have too low of testosterone levels by that age. It almost seems like a cruel joke (as do many things in life). Even if things do go well, your right in that prostitution will not suddenly make you attractive enough to get it for free. Unless you are rich, you’ll never get as much sex as you want via prostitution without breaking the bank. Again, it’s just bad options and worse options…

      But as I said before, the only other option is to forget the whole thing, and try to deal with being a virgin for the rest of your life. Some can handle that, others simply can’t. Once a man inserts his penis into a woman, even a prostitute, things really do change, and how much they change depends on how problematic virginity was in his life. For teenagers with no moral or religious standards about sex, losing virginity is nothing; for a late-life virgin man who walks around as a tarred-and-feathered caricature of social and personal failure, that one simple act can be a sort of rebirth.

      As a wise man one put it, going to a prostitute and getting it over with will leave society with one less stick to beat you over the head with.

  3. I’m a 57 year old virgin. I’m fully resigned to the fact that I’m going to die this way.
    Though the pain never really receeds, I would never make an effort to change it.
    It would be like spending the day at a theme park. You’d always want to come back
    for more, and I’m not a rich man. A handful of times wouldn’t suit me.
    I’ve already entered the 11th grade. There’s no way to make up for lost time in this
    area, or many others. “Dems de brakes.” Besides, once you’re dead, it makes no
    difference how many times you’ve had sex. Does it matter how many times J.F.K.
    had sex?
    But I would like some insight. Do you work among women? Are you comfortable
    with that? Is there some awkwardness in communicating with them? If one part
    of you wants them and another part has to perform your duties, how could you be at
    ease with them? I HATE the summertime and the way they dress.
    Also, what numbs the pain? Eastern religions like Buddhism say that DESIRE itself
    is the problem, another words, don’t THINK about what you’re missing out on.
    Once you understand that, the thoughts-for the most part-cease.
    Your material upkeep has to be secured, then it’s a case of “Most people are as happy
    as they make up their minds to be.”

  4. It’s a common — and undertandable — assumption that having sex for the first time is like trying a cigarette for the first time: suddenly you’re addicted. That’s not really how it goes for cigarettes or sex, actually. If anything, your fearful reluctance about them goes away. Where does this reluctance come from? Our elders, who find it more convenient to scare us into not doing things — the same people who later start bothering us about why we aren’t married yet. Rather than taking the more inconvenient tack of trying to instill wisdom about these things into their kids, they relied on a different approach: extrapolate what is the right balance between their scare tactics and our assumed disobedience in order for everything to happen at what they considered to be the “right time”. Obviously, it’s a miscalculation in the case of a lot of people, and guess who gets the blame…

    I once read something from a life-long virgin — I can’t remember where — saying that he was afraid that losing his virginity would be like eating a fine steak, and then knowing that he would have to go back to hard lima beans and water for the rest of his life. In my experience, that’s not how it goes. You actually want sex with a woman more when you are a virgin than after you lose your virginity. It’s not that the experience of sex is disappointing, but it doesn’t come anywhere near the heights of a late-life virgin’s imagination about it. In other words, it makes you realize that if that’s what a fine steak tastes like, then what you are eating now isn’t hard lima beans and water. Furthermore, it makes you less reluctant to go back, but it doesn’t make you desperate to go back either — your financial common sense prevails.

    Here’s what I can tell you about working with women… Most of them you would have no attraction to, and even the ones you do wouldn’t get in the way of doing your job, if you are not the ultra-confident bad boy type who doesn’t care if he gets distracted in order to hit on those women. Communication? That is a definite problem — with all of them. Young, pretty and single, or old, fat and married, there are always problems in the workplace between men and women in communicating, and the closer they have to work with each other, the worse it is. This is something that any guy who has worked with a decent number of women knows, whether he’s a virgin or not.

    What are the issues? Women expect the men they work with to be mind-readers; they make up their own “rules” and are very bossy about it if you let them; they are prone to mood swings, and sometimes are even synchronized in their menstrual cycles; they love to gossip — you tell one woman something, you tell them all; and if you are a man in a department with a majority of women, you probably aren’t going to be there for long — they will see to that.

    Now of course, I won’t say that women are not good workers. Aside from lifting heavy objects or reaching on high shelves, women can indeed work just as hard and be just as productive as men can, and can be really good when it comes to tedious tasks and certain areas of organization…but women and men always have problems working together, and it has nothing to do with sexuality.

    While we’re on the subject… Lesbians. I’ve noticed that they are about 50/50 — half of them are just as friendly and easy-going as a hetero woman, and half of them are ornery man-hating cunts.

  5. I may be dated, but have you seen the “Lesbian type” from a couple of decades ago?
    The had short “bowl-shaped” haircuts and fierce facial expressions. They absolutely
    hated men. They couldn’t be happy.
    I remember years ago, I saw an attractive “normal” looking woman in a store. Suddenly, her
    butch “boyfriend” sundered up. They get very suspicious if you stand near their “properity.”
    And have you noticed how “cliqueish” women are? They form “exclusive” groups, and they
    don’t want their “turf” trespassed on. They will do ANYTHING to get rid of you if you’re
    not wanted. That’s how feminism came about.

    1. That’s still how it goes with lesbianism. Lesbians tend to assume either a masculine or a feminine role — one is the bitch and one is the butch. Generally the butch is the snottier of the two, but not always. Are the more feminine ones not as into their own sex as much as they would have us believe? Who knows…who cares…

      If it’s one thing I do know for sure, it’s that butch lesbians sure do know how to make themselves look unappealing to men. From the boy haircut to the rotund figure, they know everything that turns men off, and they go for it.

      1. “If it’s one thing I do know for sure, it’s that butch lesbians sure do know how to make themselves look unappealing to men. From the boy haircut to the rotund figure, they know everything that turns men off, and they go for it.”

        The good thing about that is, that they are easier to spot and therefore easier to avoid.
        If only the feminists and the lesbian/bisexual ‘bitches’ were as easier to spot as well. In these days of institutional misandry and bigotry, it’s become best for a man to avoid ALL women as a ‘rule of thumb’; life is easier and much more peaceful.

  6. I am generally one who would try to avoid prostitution. However, one day I did have a break-down and went to an Asian Massage Parlor. And when they noticed the general deformity of my body, they told me they were closed and I had to leave. Funny, the sign said open and the door was unlocked.

    Having said that, I don’t regard sex with a prostitute real, genuine sex as much as it is an emotionless, business transaction. And even after having sex, you have yet to have a first kiss, go on a first date, or have a girlfriend. I always imagined having my first kiss before doing anything else. Any other order just doesn’t sit well with me.

    So, for $100 or so, here is what you get:
    1) A business transaction where the feeling is obviously not mutual and no foreplay allowed.
    2) A likelihood of obtaining an STD
    3) Spiritual difficulties
    4) A likelihood of being arrested
    5) If, by whatever small miracle, someone else enters the picture later on, an obligation to explain to her why this isn’t your first time.
    6) A less than satisfactory experience.
    7) Permission to leave as barely a memory to the girl as soon as the event is over.
    8) Financial struggles
    9) Family shame from parents and relatives if they ever found out.
    10) Need I really go on?

    Of course, I might have the strength to carry on for a few more years before I reach the breaking point of no return.

    Finally, to think back on my high school experience, as the popular aholes get to experience real, passionate, intimate, affectionate, personal, romantic sex with someone younger and hotter with none of the disadvantages. The same kids who told me I would never get a girlfriend. I’m sure they would be smiling ear to ear to hear how far I’ve fallen. Karma’s a bitch, huh?

    1. slight edit:

      Finally, to think back on my high school experience, as the popular aholes get to experience real, passionate, intimate, affectionate, personal, romantic sex with someone younger and hotter with none of the disadvantages, and completely free of charge.

    2. Sex with a prostitute is a business transaction, but then, sex in a lot of marriages is also little more than that. You can get your first kiss before the sex starts, but if you want to ensure that you’re going to get the job done, you should go to Nevada or somewhere that has legal brothels that won’t shut you out like that massage parlor did, or as some escorts will do. I know it’s more expensive, but if you have to get the job done, that’s how you can do it. It’s going to cost a lot more that $100. I would make sure to bring $1500 with you, just to be safe, and don’t take their first offer.

      As for your points, let me respond…
      1). Foreplay is allowed, and believe it or not, she might have a good time too. Maybe. Well, it doesn’t matter because you’r the client and she’s being paid.
      2). With an escort, perhaps; but in Nevada, there has never been a recorded case of HIV transmission in history; furthermore, other STDs are rare also. Legal prostitutes have an incentive to stay safe: if they come up with a disease, they can’t work, and they lose big bucks. Legal Nevada prostitution is probably the safest sex you can have.
      3). Spiritual difficulties is a tough one, but the way I see it, you get in even more trouble for jacking off. I know what they’ll say to that… “E-hem, the lesser of two evils is still evil.” My response: “Okay, looks like we’re going with the GREATER of two evils then!” Maybe that’s weak justification, but on the other hand, maybe St. Augustine (?) was right in that it’s better to have some evils exist than end up with greater ones instead. I don’t know…it’s something to think about anway.
      4). That’s the worst thing imaginable, being arrested while trying to have your first time. Again, Nevada is the place to go…peace of mind, my friend.
      5). Two thoughts on this one: a). if I went and got the job done at a brothel, and then someone just happened to come along after that, I think I’d be inclined to believe that the timing is no coinicence and that they would only come around after it was too late, and not a moment sooner; perhaps this is my bitterness speaking, but likely I’d still try to put my mind at ease that way…on the other hand, consider the fact that it’s unlikely that someone is going to come along at any point after the fact anyway; b). don’t worry about explaining anything, because it’s not likely that she’s going to tell you what she’s been up to, with any honesty. See I really think that the hope of the right person coming along is what holds a lot of guys back, and as you get older, it just gets harder. Another thing is that it’s probably going to be harder to explain being a virgin, even to a religious woman.
      6). Less satisfactory than what? Than nothing at all? This mode of thinking would only make sense if you knew for sure that someone was eventually going to come along, but chances are that no one is coming.
      7). Yes, it’s not going to be someone who you’ll mean anything to. In fact, you won’t even know her real name, and she won’t know yours. I know, it kinda sucks, but that’s how it is. My advice is to just make sure you get the hottest one you can get.
      8). No advice there. Save up, I guess. All an all, the Nevada route (counting lodging and travel too) will cost over $2000 probably. But, is it worth it?
      9). They won’t find out. And, if they ever did, which is going to be worse: them finding out you went to a brothel, or finding out that you’re a late-life virgin?

      Yes, the bullies would love to see how incel guys end up, but don’t worry because they’ll never find out (never go to class reunions). Denying them the satisfaction of knowing is easier than it sounds. Also, remember that you’d be doing this for you, not anyone else. It’s your sanity that you’re trying to maintain.

  7. Excellent post, and a great blog. I frequently tell my friends to go see prostitutes, as they’re less expensive than an abortion or (god help you) a divorce. I’m not an incel, but I empathize with anyone who is. Hypergamy isn’t kind to men.

  8. Just do it, don’t be such a pussy. It’s only 150€ to fuck a prostitute. After all, you’ll come to the realization that it’s the same as fucking your ex-wife, only cheaper. Check out H.O.E. vs. Ex-wife by Terrence Popp on Youtube, if you don’t believe. The numbers don’t lie.

    1. I love that guy but where is his beer bottle? I’m not sure I trust him without that.

      Actually, pricing is not as straight-forward as that — it all depends on where you live and how much security you want to pay for. There will always be cheap gutter trash wherever you go, although making the most of that game isn’t entry-level. If you live in America, going the legal route is going to be expensive no matter what you do, but it’s probably worth it for the first time — you don’t want to have to play dodge-the-cops and risk getting busted trying to lose your v-card. If you go to Nevada, you better come with at least $1,000 for a quality prostitute, and that doesn’t include travel and lodging. Many recommend going abroad, but I wouldn’t, because the lower expense of the sex itself in Amsterdam or Germany is outweighed by the cost of travel. Going abroad only makes sense if you are going to go on a full-blown sex tour, and spend a week or so banging many prostitutes, which is probably not for the first-timer.

      1. True. Pricing depends a lot on where you live. In my country it is actually legal to sell your own service as long as you pay your taxes but it is illegal to use a pimp to sell your service (that would be charged as trafficking and the buyer would be in trouble too). There are however regularly political campaigns to ban prostitution (usually funded by christians and feminists), so I don’t know how long this situation will last. But currently you can actually search the web for legal advertisement for sex workers on your area. Try

  9. You all seem to ignore the most important thing: Being unable to attract any woman at all causes a lot of pain and suffering. So the question is how to get relief.

    One thing that doesn’t work is going after women who are less attractive. I remember finding the less attractive just as unattainable and just as capable of considering me beneath them.

    After a lifetime of suffering I finally discovered an anti-androgen medication that reduces testosterone levels. There are side effects, such as making me lethargic instead of energetic. But I would rather be the way I am now than to be the way I previously was — better able to enjoy the other things in life.

    The only question is: Could there be better choices? One might try taking just enough to produce a perceptible libido reduction. You might discover that you missed out on some sexual opportunities. Since anger at women and self-pity are such a turn-off and so easily perceived, you might be able to approach women in a better way.

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