MGTOW Running From Incel

Isn’t it funny how so many prominent MGTOW are so quick to distance themselves from incels?  Their reasons are usually flimsy.  I have a feeling that it’s much more basic: they don’t want incels cramping their style.

In a recent video from Turd Flinging Monkey, he attempts to define MGTOW, just like everyone else who is vying to be the frontman of the band, and clearinghouse of the lexicon (words are magic spells, as TFM always says)…even I’ve made my own catechetical post on MGTOW and what it should mean, so I’m not quarterbacking him for that.  It’s a worth-watching video where he delineates MGTOW from other identities and movements according to where they are looking for validation: incel and PUA are looking for female validation; traditionalists, identitarians and MRAs are looking for social validation; and MGTOW are looking for internal validation.

But the part of interest is at 10:26, where claims that MGTOW and incel are the two most dissimilar categories, under the theory that MGTOW are going their own way out of choice while incels are involuntarily celibate.  He then acknowledges that, from the outside, there is no distinction – like saying you can’t fire me because I quit – and he wraps that part up by saying, “It’s very small-thinking, and I understand – people are stupid.”  Well that’s all well and good, but he’s actually guilty of what he’s accusing them of, in not understanding nuance.

As I’ve just laid out in another thread (I had it as a draft for a while but this thread bumped up the priority to finish it) what makes a person incel can be easily understood, as long as you’re not trying to carve up a definition that conveniently keeps you in or out, depending on whether or not you want to wear the badge.  In a nutshell, if you have a person who would otherwise have sex, but there is some barrier preventing them from doing so – no matter how insurmountable or totally pathetic it may appear to be – that person is an incel; thus, there is potentially a huge amount of overlap between incel and MGTOW.  Am I making the definition of incel much more broad that a lot of people like?  Of course, but it’s either that, or the term is arbitrary to the point of meaningless – and so would be the acronym MGTOW, for the same reasons.

What a lot of MGTOW “leaders” do is they try to distinguish themselves from incels as the guys who came into MGTOW from past sexual relationships – they transitioned from being noncel to being MGTOW, while those who they designate as truly incel are all virgins.  It’s also common to see them caricature incels as losers who are rejected by all females, and the insinuation is that it’s for good reason.

That is key, right there.

Seriously, if you go back through what the vast majority of MGTOW content creators have said about incel, and listen for what their attitude is toward those whom they define as such (habitually rejected losers), then it become pretty clear that not many of them are truly beyond their pangs for female validation.  The idea that there is anything disgraceful about being consistently rejected by females is predicated on the value and importance of female validation.  That is why you see many MGTOW barkers trying to assure everyone that incels are barred from their club.  It’s much more than simply not wanting to be tied to the likes of Elliot Rodger and Alek Minassian (although you can’t blame them for that) – they don’t want to be associated with the stigma of invalidation from females, and they don’t even realize it.

But, the first step to recover is admitting you have a problem.

Update 2019-01-29

So TFM put out another video, and it’s mostly unrelated to what we’re talking about here.  It’s basically a falling out between him an DDJ, one of his round-table contributors, over some old issue(s) relating to doxxing, cryptocurrency and other stuff that isn’t going to make much sense to those of us on the outside.  Having said that, there are a couple of points that are pertinent to this:

  • After about the 3:00 mark, DDJ says that TFM has turned into the “incel whisperer” and was conflating incel and MGTOW, to which TFM responds by saying that he wants incels to go MGTOW.  Now this seems like a lot different tone than he took when he basically said that incel and MGTOW were the most dissimilar, in the sense of self-definition (as if that should be the mark) but I don’t care.  I call it an improvement.  Trying to get incels to go MGTOW, or at least let them know that it’s a viable path, is what I’m trying to do as well.  I’m not going to get hung up on the fact that I think it’s possible to wear the incel and MGTOW badges at the same time, and he doesn’t, and long as he doesn’t shoo incels away from MGTOW over it.
  • DDJ is claiming that the idea of taking women’s rights away is a “blue-pill incel fantasy” or some such thing.  Forget about TFM – DDJ is exactly the kind of MGTOW barker I’m talking about who wants to shoo away incel because it’s cramping his style.  Now granted, there are some incels who have talked about crazy stuff, like governments getting them girlfriends and that sort of thing (oh, and I’m pretty sure they are expecting the pick of the crop, not females who are down on their level of sexual market value) which would necessarily involve taking away women’s rights because those women sure as hell aren’t going to want to fuck incels (per the Sexy Son Hypothesis) but what DDJ is saying is just a smear that exemplifies everything I’m talking about here.


The DDJ video:

I love how he starts out by saying that he’s not disparaging MGTOW or incels, and then he goes on to do exactly that.  Well, again, he’s all tangled up in some weird feud that is going on behind closed doors, and he’s using incel as a rock to throw at someone else.

Just remember this: like tradcons, femicunts, most MGTOW, and basically everyone else…DDJ is not your friend.

27 thoughts on “MGTOW Running From Incel

  1. Have you ever heard the song “I’ve Got A Name,” by Jim Croce? Google the lyrics.
    Would you consider the subject of that song, an “Incel” or an MGTOW?

    1. Oh man, you totally put that song in my head now…

      Like the fool I am and I’ll always be
      I’ve got a dream, I’ve got a dream
      They can change their minds but they can’t change me
      I’ve got a dream, I’ve got a dream
      Oh, I know I could share it if you want me to
      If you’re going my way, I’ll go with you

      Well, not incel if he has the options…perhaps purple-pill MGTOW. More likely not/applicable.

  2. It’s kinda like saying ‘I QUIT’ after your boss fires you and yo’ ass is hauled out onto the street by security. Which one is it? Have you gone MGTOW because you cannot get laid, or can’t you get laid because you have gone MGTOW? I mean, it’s sort of like the eternal question of the chicken and the egg. And just as frustrating.

    In my defence, had I embraced MGTOW a long time ago, I would have suffered a lot less. This was my fault, and mine alone. And I accept responsibility for it.

    1. Here’s what I have to say to that: MGTOW, incels…they don’t NEED a defense. We’ve got to start thinking about it in those terms. We’re too conditioned to have to try to explain ourselves to people who against us, like trying to pass a field sobriety test that is designed to make you fail, for a cop who has a vested interest in busting you, whether you’re drunk or not.

      Here’s how we should be working this situation: when someone we meet starts probing us about our relationship status, that’s when we have to nip it in the bud; they are basically asking us to give account for something that is absolutely none of their business, and so however unexpected it may be, it’s perfectly appropriate to put them on the defensive, albeit gingerly, if their impression of you is of any importance. A sideways look, a bemoaning of the question…whatever it takes to signal that you’re not up for playing that game, followed by a consistent stonewall that no amount of ferreting will overcome. That’s how I plan on doing it. Can it be done respectfully? Well and effort to be diplomatic can be made, yes, but you have to keep in mind that they’re asking questions of you on that subject is initially disrespectful, and you need to treat it as such. Maybe I’m going to be the guinea pig for this method, eh? I guess someone has to be.

  3. That is pretty much how I feel too.

    Society decided that I was not worthy of having what every other dipshit gets with minimal effort. So as far as I am concerned, how I live my life is of concern to only one person on the face of the planet – ME. And if that ain’t good enough, well tough fucking shit.

    1. “What every other dipshit gets with MINIMAL effort?”
      Two questions: Why would you refer to yourself as a “dipshit?” And. how can you be so sure
      that every other person gets these things with “minimal effort.”
      I forgot the name of the social critic who said, “If you could see how people behave in their private moments, you would be very sympathetic to them.”

      1. You’re asking why he’s calling himself a dipshit? Come on, that’s a waste of keystrokes – it’s called rhetoric. No need to, as he said, pick gnat shit out of pepper.

        And how can he be sure that most people get sex with minimal effort? Because THEY DO. Most people can’t go even six months without a sexual relationship falling into their laps. Those are the same people that tell guys like Mikey that it’s a herculean effort to get sex, and they do it as a way of self-glorifying. We knew an incel guy who told the story of how his younger, more attractive brother, had a female come to the door selling magazines, got caught up in his aura of high-T, and left some 30 minutes later after giving him a blow job. That’s not all that uncommon. Most people do not have any difficulty getting partners, nor do they have very long dry spells.

        Having said that, the proportion of guys who don’t have it easy is getting larger by the day. 20 years ago, I bet less than 2% of the western male population fell into the incel category, but I think that has increased by more than five-fold since.

        1. Then, how do you account for the fact that genuinely handsome guys are virgins into their
          late twenties and beyond, and why do “much loved” people with every seeming advantage
          kill themselves? Doesn’t this seem to indicate the “pull” from within trumps the other circumstances? “Nothing is good or bad, but THINKING makes it so.”

          1. Well, relatively good-looking guys ending up late-life virgins is a lecture for the looksists – they’re the ones who think it’s all about looks. The reason some guys end up taking the roll of Chad & Tyrone, and others end up incel, does have to do with personality, but there are two things to remember: we were all lied to about what kind of personality women find attractive; and having a “sexy” personality (loaded with arrogance and signs of dominance) is not something you can just *get* by will, or that you can fake.

        2. I think as feminism becomes more radical and unhinged, the more guys are either going to end up Incel or, hopefully, going ‘Oh fuck this for a game of poker’, and starting off down the path of MGTOW. I personally hope that it’s the latter, but I’m not so sure.

          EVERY moment of intimacy I have had I have had to struggle like fuck in order to get it. This is not an academic statement. It happens to be true.

          So now I have a dad who is battling cancer, and a pacemaker in my chest, and as a result, I just do not need any more grief. Oh, and I have a non functioning dick. My way forwards is very clear; avoid women like the plague. Which is what I do.

    2. Exactly. You know, people try to conflate MGTOW with feminism, calling it the opposite side of the same coin, right? No, there’s a crucial difference: MGTOW aren’t asking anyone for anything, but to be left alone, while feminists are demanding everything from everyone. It’s time to make stonewalling on your personal circumstances, particularly your relationship status and history, a mainstream thing. Unlike statist feminists, I’m not calling for any law to be made or changed – I’m calling for a movement to change social mores, to make asking a person about their relationship status a faux pas. If there is any goal that has even the slightest chance of being attained, so as to make it worth striving for, it’s that.

  4. What I have learned form 53 years on this ball of rock, when one is talking about human male/female relations is very simple; you either make the grade or you don’t.

    If you are fortunate enough to make the grade, then you need not do anything. You are gonna get laid. Case closed, discussion over.

    If, however, you DON’T make the grade, then all you are in for is a crock of shit. It really does not get any more simple than that Lon. The only thing that we he did not make the grade can do, is to build a life WITHOUT, what everyone else has. Yes, I know it’s a tough cookie to have to chow down on; but it is what it is.

    1. I wouldn’t deny that there are some beyond hope, but to imply that it’s an all black or white
      situation is simply not rational. The majority of people’s situations are NOT set in stone.
      And the idea that even “rich” and attractive people don’t suffer on occasion or have doubts, is

      1. I would say that those whose situation is not set in stone are younger guys…that doesn’t mean that all younger guys have hope, because some you can see clearly are headed for a life of incel, even before age 10…but yes, there is reason to have hope when you are younger than 20, or maybe even a bit after 20. But by the time you get into your late 20s or early 30s, your trajectory is clear. If you have a perfect score of ZERO all the way up to your 30th birthday, your situation is indeed set in stone.

        Even if you do end up somehow getting unpaid sex, or ending up in what you think is a “relationship”, it will be short-lived, abnormal, and will leave you battered and hollowed out. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one of those late-life debuts into the world of DSR (dating/sex/relationships) where the guy didn’t end up getting totally used and raked over the coals. Why? Because it’s like a car, at the end of an acceleration lane, trying to merge into heavy traffic from a dead stop – he pulls out into the lane and gets immediately slammed. Guys who did not keep pace simply do not have what it takes to make it with a woman, in terms of experience and know-how – and they’re never going to learn. It’s impossible at that point.

        Look, it doesn’t matter how long and hard you try, and how persistent you are – if all you do is fail, that’s all you’re ever going to know how to do. Like Michael Savage has said, it’s like a descending loss. Females can smell your inexperience, and it’s a signal to them, per Fisherian theory, that your genes are bad.

        My mission is to make guys in this boat understand that it’s okay to let go – you don’t have to keep running on the hamster wheel of futility at the prodding of people who are successful. Seems that they want you to keep trying and failing just for their own entertainment.

  5. Going your own way doesn’t even mean mandatory celibacy. Some choose that, others don’t. But it’s clear that TFM is overcompensating. If you check out MGTOW Chats 17 by Ayam Sirias you can easily see the cracks in his image.

    Still, I can give you 2 reasons to distance ourselves from incels:

    1. The average guy stumbling across MGTOW is usually vulnerable to shaming tactics, and “incel shaming” cuts into their egos effectively (for a while anyway), forcing them into the trap of marriage eventually. It’s not about our individual PR, it’s about the community itself, and its ability to attract fellow men.

    2. It’s a sad fact that “incel terrorism” is on the rise, and the public reaction to that is overly hostile (naturally). If we let MGTOW get dragged into this fight, then we might get to the point where unmarried males are third class citizens (behind women+children and married men), and we even have tradcuck nutjobs like jordan peterson advocating for state sponsored shotgun weddings and enforced monogamy. By then, it won’t stop with societal shaming or bachelor taxes, we’ll have simps killing other men just to avoid being an “outsider”. I know it sounds like a conspiracy theory, but history has already shown most of this happening in the past.

    1. A 21 year old dweeb with glasses murdered a 13 year old girl’s parents. (She was recently
      recovered.) And another eyeglass wearing dweeb killed 5 at a bank in Florida. Either these guys are incels, or these are false flag operations to give incels a bad name.

    2. Well, here’s my take on TFM: he has said many good things, and cracked open the eggshells of many important concepts that need to be standardized – especially males’ constant quest for female validation. I think that’s great. But all of us have our deficiencies, and one of TFM’s biggest is that he’s a problems-guy, not a solutions-guy. Like this worn-out kick he’s on lately about taking women’s rights away… Look, I fear that he’s correct when he points out that we’re never going to save western civilization as long as women are in the voting booth, the colleges and the workplace; but when anyone asks him how you get women back out of those places, his answer is to shout, “You just DO IT!!” or he’ll say that western men just need to “strengthen their pimp hand.” Okay, those aren’t answers. He’s not explaining what this is going to look like.

      Now to be fair, he has come up with a couple of ideas here and there for implementation… One of them is to have voting rights in certain elections more circumscribed to different groups, based on military-ready status, past service and so on. Well, if anyone else had come up with the exact same idea, he would have shot holes through it himself, based on the fact that doing something like that (which is a great idea) requires changes that have to go through a process that is currently tied up by feminists, tradcons and women voters…so it’s a waste of time to talk about. He will also point to examples of the Amish and Muslims, and how they have patriarchy, but he’s overlooking the fact that the women who are submissive in those cultures are steeped in it. Women actually have the legal right to vote, work and go to college in Amish towns in Pennsylvania, or in the Sharia enclaves of Dearborn, Michigan, but they don’t exercise that right because they are conditioned not to, and also because they’ll probably get back-handed by the men if they tried. Guess what: modernized, feminized western women don’t have that psychology. If you could somehow convince all mainstream western men to suddenly start exercising their pimp hand on their wives and daughters, it probably wouldn’t go as smoothly as TFM is picturing. Until then, the only guys who are talking about this don’t have any women to exercise authority over anyway. It’s easy to sit back and play armchair quarterback about all that stuff when the only woman you have to keep in line is a silicone doll named Celestina. TFM has also been getting a little over the top lately in his conceit – I still listen to his “round-table” discussions, but they aren’t really round-table.

      On your other two points, I’m going to throw a couple of counters to them..

      1. For MGTOW to distance themselves from incel because of the stigma of lacking female validation would be playing the same defensive losing game that establishment Republicans play with liberal Democrats – the Republicans think that they’re going to get votes if they deny all of the smears against them by tacking left, but staying just to the right of the Democrats, but all they do is de-energize their own base and lose the elections; meanwhile, the media is not going to go any easier on them, and Democrat voters, who may be less annoyed by these fake Republicans than someone like Donald Trump, are still going to vote Democrat. For MGTOW, it’s a losing defensive strategy because you’re playing right into the narrative of female validation being what makes you a real man.

      To me, incel is NOT about community, at all. We’re not running a business here, where we’re trying to lure guys with attractive sales pitches, so as to build some kind of army. To go your own way is in essence to not be part of a community. It should be going your own way, not going the same way all the others do – the latter is basically MRA. The best approach to this issue is to put the idea that you don’t need female validation FRONT AND CENTER – that is going to negate any stigma they try to project onto MGTOW right off the bat. Incel? Noncel? It won’t matter, if you make that the focus.

      2. Social marxists are already conflating MGTOW with incel. When you go into a public space online and start talking MGTOW, some tradcuck or feminist is going to start calling you an incel. So that horse has already escaped the barn. Any movement or identity that isn’t already toeing the line and going along with modern social Marxism is going to be dragged into the fight, kicking and screaming. Fighting defensively with denials and distancing is not going to get them to leave you alone. You’ll never win the fight that way. You only win fighting them head-on. That’s how Trump won. That’s how Bolsonaro won. That’s how the Yellow Vests are winning. That’s how Nigel Farage won. That’s even how Muslims are winning! And that’s the only way MGTOW is going to win – by being based.

  6. yup, I stopped watching TFM a couple years back when he made it clear he doesn’t believe a lot of the supposed philosophy he claims to support. it was disappointing because he seemed to be more sensible and logical of all the other e-celebs, but he ended up being a letdown. worst of all was when he did the typical PUA tactic of declaring that other people were “doing MGTOW wrong” and judging men who didn’t acquire enough wealth, acting concerned that someone out there might make MGTOW look bad, with zero irony in his statement. a pretty massive betrayal of the community, but people still support him so whatever.

    1. I still like him overall, but he’s getting a bit big for his britches. His whole “take women’s rights away” shtick is not without merit, but it’s getting old, for the reasons I mention above to Magyar.

      One of the biggest disappointments was when Sandman got on a live phone interview with someone recently. I will admit that Sandman annoys me a little, how he opines for money in an almost computerized voice, and all of that was taken out in this interview; but I think he kind of backed down to the woman (? – I can’t even remember now) interviewing, and took too much of an apologist tone.

  7. I’m the first to admit, in light of the fact that I am a FORMER Incel, that Incels do themselves no favours at all. And here are my reasons for saying that (1) They do NOTHING AT ALL to help themselves. And by ‘helping themselves’ I do not mean working out or getting a decent haircut – I mean they do NOT take the simple step of dropping the ‘Nice Guy’ act. UNLESS you are in the top 20% of men who make women INSTANTLY wet, you have to accept the fact that UNLESS you want to do the SMART thing, and simply PAY to get your needs met, you are gonna be walking uphill in treacle. (2) A lot of the have this mental block when it comes to using hookers. ‘Why should we have to pay when’…BLAH BLAH BLAH.

    Look. I know we should not have to pay. If our society was run CORRECTLY, then 99.999999999999% of all men would be able to find WILLING sexual partners. But guess what guys? Our society is not run correctively.

    See, we have allowed women to have WAY too many rights. Without EVER reminding them about their RESPONSIBILITIES. It was MEN who built our civilistaion. NOT women. And women have been allowed AND ENCOURAGED, to turn their backs upon the roles that NATURE intended them for. I am not a religious man. I do, however, believe that NATURE knows best, when it comes to human sexual relations. We had a system, in place that worked for THOUSANDS of years.

    So, taking all of this into consideration, it is obvious to me, that the ONLY way forward for ANY man who has had ENOUGH of the fucking three ring circus that passes for modern day DSR, is simply to walk the fuck away from it. Now, I personally do not give a shit HOW a guy arrives at this conclusion; as log as he DOEs.

    1. Yes, and for some incel guys, here’s what it takes: they have to realize that no matter how much they complain about the status quo, no matter how many valid points they make about the glaring contradictions in western feminized culture…they are not moving the needle one iota. A guy can stand on that hill and shout it all they want, but the only thing changing is that the sun is setting behind him. He’s getting older, he’s becoming more and more of a circus freak in his own heart of hearts, and his mind is getting more and more warped as time goes on. If that weren’t bad enough, the ball of gynocentricism keeps rolling further and further down the hill, and a time when there will be no legal prostitution, anywhere is drawing ever closer. If the ball of virginity chained to his leg is pulling him further and further toward the bottom of the ocean, he’s got to realize that shaking his fist at the rabbits to attached it won’t make it come undone – he has to unbind himself with they key that is prostitution before it’s too late.

      I’m glad to see that people are walking up to the fact that women’s liberation is the downfall of western civilization, although it’s probably too late to save it – that might not be the case if Islam were not in the equation, but it is, so there you have it. As for guys like us? Well, we have no posterity, so do we really have a dog in the hunt?

      I once saw this bush-league Calvinist documentary called Unmarried: the Rise of Singleness (featuring our buddy Bradford Wilcox and other preachers), which was all of the usual tradcon shaming…but there was one point near the beginning of the video where one preacher basically tells you why they are doing it: he says that tradcons should be shaming young men into marriage for the sake of their own kids… Now why, you may ask, would you having kids help some other tradcon’s kids? Because your kids will help their kids “transmit a culture” – it’s basically another way of describing the demographic war between western Christian cultures and Islam. They’re fighting a demographic war, and their kids are already in the fight, so they want you to have kids too in order to make the army their kids are in bigger and stronger, so hopefully they’ll win. Now you might say that they should have thought about the size of the army they’d be putting their kids into before doing so…but these are older guys who have a whole herd of kids, so it’s too late, and besides, shaming others is a more viable path than changing your own programming I guess.

  8. ‘Even if you do end up somehow getting unpaid sex, or ending up in what you think is a “relationship”, it will be short-lived, abnormal, and will leave you battered and hollowed out.’

    Man I can attest to that. I mean physically, as insane as it sounds I did OK! Put it this way, I gave my former girlfriend one HELL of an orgasm, and I know she wasn’t faking it, ‘coz my tongue was inside her at the time.

    The physical bit is easy I guess. What is more difficult is the actual relationship itself – which in my case has always gone south. It always will, and now that I do not have any physical needs, I think my best bet is to forget the whole sorry mess. Which is what I am doing.

    Do I get lonely? Yes I do. But I am not prepared to got through the whole bullshit dating process again. It’s just too much like hard fucking work.

    1. Indeed, they can fake the moaning, but when you feel something drip off your nut sack, you know it’s for real.

      Relationships have always been work… You know what, I take that back – there was a time when our forefathers had so much command over their women that it was a breeze. The worked hard, but to feed the family – they didn’t have to jump through a bunch of hoops and bullshit games to keep the wife happy, entertained and interested. A good wife knew her place, was seen and not heard and raised the children, and a good husband kept the family fed and didn’t beat her. That’s how it was, and it worked. Nowadays? It’s a whole lot of work just to think you have a chance at a relationship.

      I mean I just can’t say it enough… As critical of TFM as people are in this thread, he brings an immutable truth: ever since western civilization put females in the driver’s seat of human sexual relations, the whole shit has run off the road and right into the ditch.

      He says that if you take the revocation of women’s rights off the table, you cannot save western civilization. True enough, but since I don’t have a seat at the table myself – nor does anyone else reading this – we have but one option: abandon ship. #MGTOW

  9. I think that it is the ONLY logical choice.

    Does it mean, that should my dick decide to function again, and I got the chance at getting some sex I would turn it down? Hell no! But do I want to be forced to put up with female BS in order to get it? Like fuck I do.

    As I have said elsewhere on this blog, I have a lot on my plate at the moment. I do not have room on my plate for ANY MORE GRIEF – which is part and parcel of being in a relationship, unless of course you happen to be in the top 20% of men who make women instantly wet, in which case you don’t have to do fuck all.

    For the rest of us poor saps, well we get the shitty end of the stick. Me? I chose to get off this Greyhound bus to fucking nowhere. And that is the way it is gonna be.

  10. “unless of course you happen to be in the top 20% of men who make women instantly wet, in which case you don’t have to do fuck all.”

    Why do so many men, incel and noncel alike, fail to understand this? Has it really never occurred to anyone that simply becoming “official” with a female, entering into a relationship with her, is not the end of it, where you can supposedly just kick back and relax? I guess I can see why incels don’t understand it because the whole thing is just a big mystery to them, and maybe noncels don’t get the whole story because they only know their own experiences and haven’t bothered to connect the dots… But I still can’t believe that so many men have not figure out the obvious correlation between difficulty in getting into a relationship, and difficulty in maintaining one. For the top 20%, you have no headwinds getting females, and you have minimal headwinds in a relationship – your biggest challenge is staying faithful, because opportunity is everywhere. For the bottom 20%, it’s like a mission to the moon to even get into an official relationship with a female, the headwinds are strong, the conditions rocky, and you can’t maintain it for more than a few weeks at best…and then you’re just as incel as you were at any point before that. The hill you’re trying to climb is always, always going to be as steep as ever.

  11. Some MGTOW’s get on my nerves(TFM🤮), but guys like huMAN and Paul Elam have some good points.

    The usual “cant get laid” jibe is actually sad. It is said by people who can’t argue the points, so resort to name calling like schoolyard bullies. And it is laughable when the major figures in the manosphere are advising men based on ample experience.🙄

    “Just go your own way already, and shut up”
    Why should they? They are letting other guys know that living without female validation is an option. What are these people scared of? If MGTOW’s are wrong, then most men will reject it. If the ones that don’t are as pathetic as they make out, then MGTOW’s are doing everyone a favour, surely?😕

    And all the “big men” who like to shame, and call you a loser for not chasing sex, are just knuckleheads led by their testicles. A man controls his urges, and is not controlled by them. If you are led by your balls you are as good as a dog humping the furniture. Enjoy yourself, but be led by your rational principles and ambition.🧐

    White knights are often men who defend women forever in the hope of getting access to women’s sexual favour. They willingly sacrifice integrity for female validation. They also happen to be the “nice guys” who finish last. Funny that. Almost as if women can see right through them. Hmm🤔
    Btw…they’re secretly worse mysogynists than MGTOW’s. Ask a proper feminist what they think of white knights…😂

    1. “Btw…they’re secretly worse mysogynists than MGTOW’s. Ask a proper feminist what they think of white knights…😂”

      No, that’s actually not the case. First of all, you should know better than to ask a feminist anything, unless you’re gauging her response in light of the fact that she’s a feminist, instead of trying to get any valid information.

      Feminists and self-identifying non-feminists alike will brand a guy a misogynist based on how attractive he isn’t, not because he’s a hater of women. The fact that he stoops to that simping behavior is an indicator to females that he has unsuitable genes. He acts that way because he was taught that white knighting is the proper way to appeal to the opposite sex – he actually has more respect for females than the bad boy (too much respect, in fact) which is not the mark of a misogynist. “Nice guys” and “bad boys” are the same, in the sense that they want to hook up with females; the difference is that the bad boy gets pussy for just being himself – arrogant, stupid, rebellious, dominant over other males and usually tall – and so he doesn’t have to white knight, while the nice guy doesn’t have that luxury, and is going by the book of courtship from the 1950s that his ignorant parents gave him, and failing hard. And being tarred with the brush of whatever sounds bad – like being a misogynist.

      Having said that, many guys like that eventually become misogynists, after it finally dawns on them that they have been lied to, used and silently condemned by the whole of womankind, and that it’s actually the guys who don’t white knight them who get laid…oh, and after he has probably been falsely accused of being a misogynist a few times, just for being unattractive. A lot of that depends on how quickly the truth sinks in. For guys who have the truth of how things really work fall on them all at once like a ton of bricks, without really having the time to digest it and make sense of it, yes, they can turn into woman haters really fast. I mean it is kind of a mind-fuck, let’s face it. This also feeds the confirmation bias of females, and bad boys who get laid automatically, as if their bias needed any feeding. Basically, it’s when he stops defending females, and starts saying the same thing that Mr. Sexy says, that he gets branded a misogynist shit-lord. Again, the difference is in which of the two guys the woman wants to get a semen injection from.

      I try to admonish these guys for simping females when I can, but it doesn’t do any good – just like it didn’t do any good when my older brother just sprung on me one day a diatribe about how females actually want to be treated badly, at a time when I was a completely blue-pilled teenager with absolutely zero experience. They are all theory and no hands-on, and they’ve been taught not to listen to guys who try to red-pill them – that’s part of the blue pill education, after all. It’s pretty typical that you’ll find a former “nice guy” who has been red-pilled being called a misogynist by a blue-pilled white as a way of sucking up to some female, who gladly agrees and continues to soak of all of the simping adoration, until she cuts his lame ass loose and he too becomes red-pilled.

      “Some MGTOW’s get on my nerves(TFM🤮), but guys like huMAN and Paul Elam have some good points.”

      Yeah, I had to unsubscribe from TFM. He just got too big for his britches, and the whole “take women’s rights away” motif, with no implementation plan, got stale a long time ago. I won’t deny that the body politic went to hell after women got universal suffrage, but there are some problems with disenfranchising one particular demographic or another for the purpose of achieving a particular electoral outcome. For one thing, while it may seem like all females are globalist communists and all males are free-market nationalists, the difference is much more marginal than that, when you look at the data. You could tweak the electoral outcome a lot more effectively by disenfranchisement other demographics, along the lines of race, religion, sexual orientation, blah blah blah…or even marital/relationship status! Ooooo… I better not give the tradcons any ideas there. It would be better to disenfranchise based on things that more relate to what makes people vote the wrong way – like status as a non-net taxpayer or something – and that way, a lot of socialist females will be caught up, along with socialist males, and the females that still do vote will mostly vote the right way anyway – probably by a better margin than you’d get from a male-only voting block.

      I still listen to Happy Humble Hermit. I also like Jak’d 2.0, although he’s a bit mixed-up. Maybe that’s what I like about him.

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