Isn’t it funny how so many prominent MGTOW are so quick to distance themselves from incels? Their reasons are usually flimsy. I have a feeling that it’s much more basic: they don’t want incels cramping their style.
In a recent video from Turd Flinging Monkey, he attempts to define MGTOW, just like everyone else who is vying to be the frontman of the band, and clearinghouse of the lexicon (words are magic spells, as TFM always says)…even I’ve made my own catechetical post on MGTOW and what it should mean, so I’m not quarterbacking him for that. It’s a worth-watching video where he delineates MGTOW from other identities and movements according to where they are looking for validation: incel and PUA are looking for female validation; traditionalists, identitarians and MRAs are looking for social validation; and MGTOW are looking for internal validation.
But the part of interest is at 10:26, where claims that MGTOW and incel are the two most dissimilar categories, under the theory that MGTOW are going their own way out of choice while incels are involuntarily celibate. He then acknowledges that, from the outside, there is no distinction – like saying you can’t fire me because I quit – and he wraps that part up by saying, “It’s very small-thinking, and I understand – people are stupid.” Well that’s all well and good, but he’s actually guilty of what he’s accusing them of, in not understanding nuance.
As I’ve just laid out in another thread (I had it as a draft for a while but this thread bumped up the priority to finish it) what makes a person incel can be easily understood, as long as you’re not trying to carve up a definition that conveniently keeps you in or out, depending on whether or not you want to wear the badge. In a nutshell, if you have a person who would otherwise have sex, but there is some barrier preventing them from doing so – no matter how insurmountable or totally pathetic it may appear to be – that person is an incel; thus, there is potentially a huge amount of overlap between incel and MGTOW. Am I making the definition of incel much more broad that a lot of people like? Of course, but it’s either that, or the term is arbitrary to the point of meaningless – and so would be the acronym MGTOW, for the same reasons.
What a lot of MGTOW “leaders” do is they try to distinguish themselves from incels as the guys who came into MGTOW from past sexual relationships – they transitioned from being noncel to being MGTOW, while those who they designate as truly incel are all virgins. It’s also common to see them caricature incels as losers who are rejected by all females, and the insinuation is that it’s for good reason.
That is key, right there.
Seriously, if you go back through what the vast majority of MGTOW content creators have said about incel, and listen for what their attitude is toward those whom they define as such (habitually rejected losers), then it become pretty clear that not many of them are truly beyond their pangs for female validation. The idea that there is anything disgraceful about being consistently rejected by females is predicated on the value and importance of female validation. That is why you see many MGTOW barkers trying to assure everyone that incels are barred from their club. It’s much more than simply not wanting to be tied to the likes of Elliot Rodger and Alek Minassian (although you can’t blame them for that) – they don’t want to be associated with the stigma of invalidation from females, and they don’t even realize it.
But, the first step to recover is admitting you have a problem.
So TFM put out another video, and it’s mostly unrelated to what we’re talking about here. It’s basically a falling out between him an DDJ, one of his round-table contributors, over some old issue(s) relating to doxxing, cryptocurrency and other stuff that isn’t going to make much sense to those of us on the outside. Having said that, there are a couple of points that are pertinent to this:
- After about the 3:00 mark, DDJ says that TFM has turned into the “incel whisperer” and was conflating incel and MGTOW, to which TFM responds by saying that he wants incels to go MGTOW. Now this seems like a lot different tone than he took when he basically said that incel and MGTOW were the most dissimilar, in the sense of self-definition (as if that should be the mark) but I don’t care. I call it an improvement. Trying to get incels to go MGTOW, or at least let them know that it’s a viable path, is what I’m trying to do as well. I’m not going to get hung up on the fact that I think it’s possible to wear the incel and MGTOW badges at the same time, and he doesn’t, and long as he doesn’t shoo incels away from MGTOW over it.
- DDJ is claiming that the idea of taking women’s rights away is a “blue-pill incel fantasy” or some such thing. Forget about TFM – DDJ is exactly the kind of MGTOW barker I’m talking about who wants to shoo away incel because it’s cramping his style. Now granted, there are some incels who have talked about crazy stuff, like governments getting them girlfriends and that sort of thing (oh, and I’m pretty sure they are expecting the pick of the crop, not females who are down on their level of sexual market value) which would necessarily involve taking away women’s rights because those women sure as hell aren’t going to want to fuck incels (per the Sexy Son Hypothesis) but what DDJ is saying is just a smear that exemplifies everything I’m talking about here.
The DDJ video:
I love how he starts out by saying that he’s not disparaging MGTOW or incels, and then he goes on to do exactly that. Well, again, he’s all tangled up in some weird feud that is going on behind closed doors, and he’s using incel as a rock to throw at someone else.
Just remember this: like tradcons, femicunts, most MGTOW, and basically everyone else…DDJ is not your friend.